From Doing the Impossible
Rudy Giuliani loves the impossible. That trait has shaped his life, prepared him to lead the nation in those horrific days after September 11 and transformed him into our most popular leader. In this interview with Reader's Digest, the mayor reveals how he learned to fight for what he believes in and how he overcame his worst fear. He also candidly discusses the love in his life -- and God's plan for his future.RD: What is your first memory?
Giuliani: In the late '40s, at the height of the rivalry between the New York Yankees and the Brooklyn Dodgers, we lived so close to Ebbets Field that you could hear the fans cheering. But my father was a Yankee fan. Before I had a choice, he began dressing me up in a little Yankee uniform -- even my bat had Yankee pinstripes.
RD: Was it dangerous to go around in a little Yankee uniform?
Giuliani: That's more than a joke. And that experience has something to do with my character and personality. I had to physically defend myself from neighborhood kids who would attack me. Once they put a rope around my neck and tried to hang me from a tree. My grandmother chased them away.
RD: Why did your father continue sending you out in the uniform?
Giuliani: He thought I would learn how to stand up for what I believed in. And he turned out to be right. There are a thousand ways to teach a child that lesson, and that was his way. My father also taught me how to box, beginning when I was very young. He would sit in a chair, so as I grew up he remained my height. He would have a pair of boxing gloves on, and I would have a pair. And he would tell me to try to hit him. Then he would show me how to defend myself; he would never hit me.
RD: What did your mother say?
Giuliani: That he was going to make me too violent. So in response, he would always lecture me, saying I shouldn't be a bully, shouldn't be an aggressor and should never fight with anyone smaller than me.
RD: Did his lessons sink in?
Giuliani: Yes, they did. Let me fast-forward to September 11. All that day, I could hear him saying to me: "In a crisis, when everybody else gets very, very excited, you have to become the calmest person in the room, so you can figure a way out of the situation." He would say that over and over. And on September 11, his voice was in my head.
RD: Starting with your father making you a Yankee fan in Brooklyn, you have achieved the unachievable -- crushing the mob when you were a prosecutor, becoming a Republican mayor of a Democratic stronghold, and then revitalizing the city that experts had written off as the Rotting Apple.
Giuliani: I love the challenge of doing things people say can't be done. The minute somebody says, "That can't be done," I respond by thinking it would be interesting, exciting and fulfilling to prove it can be done.
Uncharted Territory
RD: Did you ever think you were facing something you couldn't beat?Giuliani: Yes, on September 11. What ignited that feeling was seeing a man jump from Tower One. An aide said people were jumping, but my mind rejected it. Then, as I walked closer to the towers, a police officer told me to look up, keep looking up, so nothing would hit us. Suddenly, I see a man hurl himself from above the 100th floor and come flying down. I followed that from beginning to end. And I grabbed Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik's arm and said, "We're in uncharted territory. We're going to have to invent a way to get through this."
RD: How did you fight your fears?
Giuliani: The feeling reemerged when the first tower came down. I feared we might be attacked again, maybe later that day. I kept asking the police commissioner: "Have we thought about the Statue of Liberty, the Stock Exchange, the Empire State Building?" And then I started addressing, how am I going to explain this to people? Then, I thought of Winston Churchill. If the people of Britain could get through months of bombing during World War II, we can get through a day or two of this. That comforted me. I said, that's how I'll explain it to the people: This is not unprecedented, people have gotten through it before, and we're just as good as they were. I knew all Americans -- not just New Yorkers -- would respond to that message.
RD: During that terrible day, in a sense, you were alone at the national microphone delivering that message. How did that happen?
Giuliani: I was there. I was the mayor of New York. My whole approach as mayor was to be there and to be in charge. If I had not gone on TV, it would have been worse for the city. After the first tower collapsed, my press office was inundated with calls from reporters saying, we understand the mayor is dead.
RD: Why did the press think that?
Giuliani: We were missing for 20 minutes. Someone saw us go into a building, then that building got hit with debris as the first tower fell, and they never saw us come out. They didn't know we got out on another street. So when I got to the microphones, I was saying, "I'm here and I'm okay, and the city's here and the city's okay." I had to balance being honest and being hopeful. I had to say this is a horrible, awful, terrible thing, but somehow we're going to get through this. Maybe it's similar to Churchill telling his people he had nothing to offer but blood, sweat and tears. If he had said, "The Nazis are bombing us, no problem," his people would have said, "You're crazy. Go smoke one of your cigars; you're retired."
RD: What gave you hope?
Giuliani: Two things. One was the brave way people were evacuating. They were rushing, but they weren't knocking each other over. Many were stopping to help people. That said to me their spirit hadn't been broken. And the second was when I saw the newspaper photo of the firefighters putting our flag up. It looked like Iwo Jima. That brave act gave me a great sense that the American spirit is as strong as it ever was. The debris was five to seven stories high; the fires were at 2500 to 3000 Fahrenheit. They were standing on top of hell when they put up that flag.
RD: How long did Ground Zero remain that dangerous?
Giuliani: For weeks. I wanted President Bush to come, and he did on that Friday. But I was very worried. When the President got up with the firemen, he was standing on a mound of debris. I know [laughs] the Secret Service wanted to tackle him and bring him down.
Courage
RD: What were you thinking during the days after the attack?Giuliani: Many, many times I thought about my last conversation with my father, when he was dying of cancer. I wanted to know if he had ever been afraid during his life. He said, "I was always afraid." And then he said, "Courage is doing what you have to do even though you are afraid."
RD: That sounds like Churchill.
Giuliani: Then he added, "If you're not afraid at times, you're crazy."
RD: And that sounds like a guy from Brooklyn.
Giuliani: And I gave him a hug and gave him a kiss. My father probably had delivered that message about courage to me in other ways for the last ten years. But saying it that way right before he died had a very, very big impact on me. Since then, I've always understood that courage is about the management of fear, not the absence of fear.
RD: When you were diagnosed with prostate cancer two years ago, what went through your mind?
Giuliani: It made me ask questions about life, death and mortality that ultimately helped me get through September 11. I concluded that everyone lives every day with the possibility of dying. People with cancer just confront it more dramatically.
RD: Were you ever as frightened?
Giuliani: No. No, no, no, no. Because it's lonely. You have to come to terms with a deadly disease. But during the time I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, incredible numbers of people died of all different things, including the awful tragedy of September 11. Getting cancer is just another way of having to deal with the human situation.
RD: Soon after you faced your own mortality, the public's response to your leadership on September 11 gave you a measure of immortality.
Giuliani: Right. But it's hard for me to accept that. Sometimes when people wave, yelling, "Rudy, way to go, Rudy," I say to myself, "Why are these people waving at me?"
RD: What do you make of the mass response to the tribute to victims at the Metropolitan Opera?
Giuliani: The head of the Met told me the company wanted to stage a benefit performance on September 22, and asked if I'd speak. When I arrived I realized they had put a giant TV screen in the plaza in front of the opera house, so the public could see the performance. But people were not going out then, so there was concern. If only five people showed up, that could send a counterproductive message: Everybody's scared. At intermission, I walked outside and there were thousands of people. That crystallized something for me. People weren't going out -- but not because of fear. They were mourning.
RD: And you got a standing ovation that went on for five minutes.
Giuliani: Almost as long as Caruso and Pl´cido Domingo and Luciano Pavarotti -- but never as long [laughing]. It was a great experience, like the wedding ("Arm-in-Arm in an Aisle of Joy"). Those events helped me see that the beautiful things in life have to go on. Otherwise, the terrorists win.
The Correct Philosphy
RD: At several 9/11 funerals, you addressed the children of fallen firemen and policemen. You said that in one sense they had gotten a gift. They now knew -- and would know forever -- that their father was a great man. Now your son, Andrew, and daughter, Caroline, know you are being hailed as a great man too. Do you worry that they might feel pressure to live up to your hero's image?Giuliani: It's hard for me to think of myself as a great man. I don't accept that. I have never wanted my children to feel they had to live their lives in a particular way -- or that they had to compete with me in any way. My mother and father taught me: Find something you enjoy doing, and you will be happy. That's what I tell my children. And not just tell them -- I try to conduct myself in a way that allows them to find their own path to happiness.
RD: Have you talked to Andrew or Caroline about this since 9/11?
Giuliani: [Laughing] No. My son, who is now 16, is much more interested in meeting ballplayers -- his real heroes -- than talking to me. And while I was mayor, my 12-year-old daughter was most impressed that I met *NSYNC. That's the way kids are, if you don't distort them.
RD: Perhaps overcompensating for his background, your father insisted that you never cheat, nor lie -- to the point where he overdid it. Do you try to avoid overdoing it with your son and daughter?
Giuliani: My father constantly put tremendous pressure on me about being honest about everything. My mother had a different way. You could never meet her expectations. If you came home with a 90, she'd say, how come it's not 95? If you got 100, how come you didn't get all 100s? That was her imperfect way of motivating. So when I see my kids' report cards, I give them positive reinforcement. I don't want to put extraordinary pressure on them. Some parents make their children believe that whatever happens is so crucial, and it really isn't. Children's lives are not determined in their 10th year or 15th year or by whether they get into the right college or have one bad year in school. I think too much pressure is put on kids to be perfect.
RD: How will New York City react if it is attacked again?
Giuliani: New York is going to be here forever, and the people of the city will do what they have to do to get through whatever happens.
RD: What makes you so confident?
Giuliani: People who live in freedom are stronger than any terrorists. They are operating out of hatred and maniacal anger that ultimately will destroy them. Hitler did tremendous damage, but he didn't win. Our ideas of freedom and democracy are right. I don't mean this in a belligerent way. I mean it in a moral and philosophical way: We're right, and they're wrong. That doesn't mean all our ideas are right, or that we're always right. But our philosophy is correct; their philosophy is warped. Ultimately, many more people will follow our way of life than theirs.
Core Values
RD: Is this generation ready for the challenges ahead?Giuliani: I remember reading Tom Brokaw's book about the World War II generation [The Greatest Generation] and thinking, I'm pretty sure we would have the same strength. But, you don't know -- just as you don't know what you might do. But on September 11, I knew we were strong enough. This generation is no different than the one that fought the Second World War because the same set of beliefs -- the same core values -- motivates us. That's why we'll prevail, as we always have.
RD: You attended Catholic schools and even thought about becoming a priest. Who was your favorite saint?
Giuliani: St. Francis because of his kindness and humanity. I often think of Father [Mychal] Judge [the Fire Department chaplain who died at Ground Zero]. Sometimes I would see him in his Franciscan robes and sandals, and sometimes in his fireman's uniform. To me, he embodied the ideal blend of spirituality and public service. Growing up, I learned about leadership by reading the biographies of political leaders, like Churchill, and saints, like St. Francis. I have prayed to St. Francis from kindergarten on.
RD: Did you pray on September 11?
Giuliani: I pray at night when I go to bed -- not every night, though maybe I should [laughing]. But during September 11 and after, I found myself praying in the middle of the day, asking God to help me do the right thing. I became intensely religious trying to figure things out. Why did one man live and another die? The building we were in could have been crushed by the first tower. When you contemplate those questions -- the mysteries of life -- it humbles you. It drives you to your knees.
RD: You have said that God spared you for a purpose.
Giuliani: God has a plan, even when you don't understand it fully. But you do have a sense of it, and you have a choice. You can conduct yourself in accordance with it, or not. You can either do good, or bad. I am trying to devote my life to as many good purposes as possible.
RD: How will you do good?
Giuliani: I believe you do good in concentric circles, beginning with the people you support and who support you. I have a very big family [laughing], including all the people who served with me in government and now work with me in our consulting business. I also am spending more time with my children. And September 11 has made me much closer to Judith [his companion, Judith Nathan]. We were close already. And then we went through hell together. In addition, I feel a special responsibility to protect the families of the fallen firemen and policemen through the Twin Towers Fund.
RD: Will you run for office again?
Giuliani: When I was younger I set my sights on specific jobs, like U.S. Attorney, mayor. But my prostate cancer and September 11 has changed me. I'm going to let that decision come into focus in the next year or two. The possibilities are far more exciting that way. I do see myself in public office. I just don't know where or when.